Author Topic: Triple Warpath and why (I believe) it sucks  (Read 4549 times)

Offline Clearbeard

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Re: Triple Warpath and why (I believe) it sucks
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2014, 07:22:24 AM »
The lack of a good 4 drop is an interesting point.  Skraar's young is a solid card for 4, as is Matriarch, who I usually run in command.  But as often as not, I end up PLAYING Matriarch from command on 4 resources, to get an extra 10 damage hit on the fortress, or occasionally to unexpectedly kill a good target of opportunity.  However, that completely negates the whole point of running her as a commander, which is to get the benefit of her ability while saving those 4 resources.  An interesting conundrum.

Warpath is hampered even more by the lack of a good 1st turn 1 drop.  Hulking Sniper is a fantastic card, but I will very seldom play it on turn 1.  If I don't think I'll be facing many flyers, it's an ok play just as a generic 4/4 beast.  If there's a key flyer commander, it's an ok play, but even there you are usually just saving your opponent from having to spend resources on that commander.  The original Xi is about the best target, but who runs her when her 10 health Ascended version is available (and out of sniper range)?  That, using Caretaker, or dropping a lucky Noble are their ONLY viable 1st turn plays, which needs to change.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 07:24:07 AM by Clearbeard »

Offline Angelshard

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Re: Triple Warpath and why (I believe) it sucks
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2014, 02:58:31 PM »
You can also add Agent Coyle and some soldiers of fortune, not optimal, but it does give some added 1 turm drops

Offline MerliniX

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Re: Triple Warpath and why (I believe) it sucks
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2014, 03:14:32 PM »
You can also add Agent Coyle and some soldiers of fortune, not optimal, but it does give some added 1 turm drops

It would probably be better to forego 1 drops at all than to add Soldier of Fortune. Alpha One ends up eating many more resources in subsequent turns to make himself relevant, which slows down your board development and in general sets you behind as well. If you don't sink resources into him he is a worse Soldier of Fortune.

Ideally WP needs a 3 drop that is similar in strength to Kali the Purifier that can be run in command. Something like an 8/12 with a beneficial ability. This would help smooth out early game weakness and give WP a significant play on turn 3 that could allow them to begin transitioning into midgame strength.


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Re: Triple Warpath and why (I believe) it sucks
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2014, 04:33:27 PM »
You can also add Agent Coyle and some soldiers of fortune, not optimal, but it does give some added 1 turm drops

It would probably be better to forego 1 drops at all than to add Soldier of Fortune. Alpha One ends up eating many more resources in subsequent turns to make himself relevant, which slows down your board development and in general sets you behind as well. If you don't sink resources into him he is a worse Soldier of Fortune.

Ideally WP needs a 3 drop that is similar in strength to Kali the Purifier that can be run in command. Something like an 8/12 with a beneficial ability. This would help smooth out early game weakness and give WP a significant play on turn 3 that could allow them to begin transitioning into midgame strength.

Alpha One isn't really that bad of an idea. Sure he may be worse stat wise than Soldier of Fortune, but if you just use him as a card that allows you to protect your fortress for one turn while playing BLBP and gaining ramp then he isn't that bad. Especially since he doesn't cost any morale so you don't really lose anything by playing him as a defender and not investing resources into him.

Offline CubicBerserker

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Re: Triple Warpath and why (I believe) it sucks
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2014, 07:17:19 PM »
The original Xi is about the best target, but who runs her when her 10 health Ascended version is available (and out of sniper range)?

Actually, the first deck I took into pvp was a Xi rush deck. My very first game started with getting my Xi sniped on turn one. Maybe it's because I lack key cards for many other deck types, but I still think it's one of my best decks.

I do agree that a good turn one play would help warpath a lot against faster decks. I don't think it would solve everything though.

Offline Heaven-Canceler

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Re: Triple Warpath and why (I believe) it sucks
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2014, 08:02:40 PM »
What Warpath lacks as a 4-drop is a simple combat based one that doesn't Need extra ressources. Skraar's Young is Death Ray bait because you pay 8 for it. If they had made Shamba 4 cost, it would have been similar for him. (And I think he would have been more impressive since a 10/10 for 5 without immediate effect is Kind of puffyty and obvious death Ray, CTA etc... bait.)

They Need Drops that can challenge other Cards on even ground, without becoming so inefficient and vulnerable that you pay 8, only to get your character killed with a single Death Ray which costs 3.

Ancient Aether and the new Terror Moose are the only WP cards I know that have some form of Ability countering aside from using Hasted characters. And the Landcrawler is the only good Counter to FD I remember. (And will still die to the crazy high power low health characters they throw out.)

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Re: Triple Warpath and why (I believe) it sucks
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2014, 08:37:10 PM »
What Warpath lacks as a 4-drop is a simple combat based one that doesn't Need extra ressources. Skraar's Young is Death Ray bait because you pay 8 for it. If they had made Shamba 4 cost, it would have been similar for him. (And I think he would have been more impressive since a 10/10 for 5 without immediate effect is Kind of puffyty and obvious death Ray, CTA etc... bait.)

They Need Drops that can challenge other Cards on even ground, without becoming so inefficient and vulnerable that you pay 8, only to get your character killed with a single Death Ray which costs 3.

Ancient Aether and the new Terror Moose are the only WP cards I know that have some form of Ability countering aside from using Hasted characters. And the Landcrawler is the only good Counter to FD I remember. (And will still die to the crazy high power low health characters they throw out.)

I don't understand how Skraars Young being Death Ray bait is a bad thing. You can use him to bait an opponent into using Death Ray onto him and pulling him back to dodge it. Against any other Faction Skraar's Young is a great tank. Even if you don't want it used against Verore, it's still a great card vs any other deck.

I think people are not considering the Wreckful Walrus as a good turn 4 play either. Sure it might be a better sideboard card, but it's still a good 4 drop for Warpath if your opponent has Artifacts.

Offline Angelshard

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Re: Triple Warpath and why (I believe) it sucks
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2014, 08:56:03 PM »
And Hulking is a good turn 1 drop if your opponent has a command flier.

Problem is that a lot of the good drops are reactionary in nature, requireing that your opponent plays a the right cards to make them effective or that you have two cards that work together (guard Rite of Rage).

Track + fireball is also a good 4 point move to remove a pesky character, but requires you have both cards early on, taking two slots out of your hand.

Personally I still feel that WP can get alot of aid from factionless, Zuza works wonders for them, drop on three, control on four.

Also I'm trying a defensive WP deck with protector in command to prevent morale defeat and three mortars to defeat fortress with leaving my characters free to defend, still not a great deck though.

Offline w4golf

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Re: Triple Warpath and why (I believe) it sucks
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2014, 11:32:30 AM »
I don't think a 4 drop is what they need.  They need better 1 and 2 drops.  Hulking is a good 1 drop, but they need another option.

Offline Rethorian

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Re: Triple Warpath and why (I believe) it sucks
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2014, 01:09:13 PM »
The faction was designed to ramp. It's supposed to have a hard early game, and then ramp into giant beasts before the opponent knows what hit them.

If you just want to turn it into a generic faction that doesn't ramp, you can give it high tempo 1-2 cost cards.

The problem is, that it ramps on turn 2 with BLBP, and has nothing to do on turn 3 with 4 resources, except ramp more. It needs the option to jump into the game there, instead of gambling on more ramp and hoping it's 5 cost cards will save it next turn. Without Karani, mass ramp is NOT a good gamble.

I wonder what would happen in Karani only worked on the turn after she was played, and was back to a 4 cost card. Means you could turn 3 Karani, have 7 resources next turn, and then lose her bonus. It would give Warpath an 8/8 to stall with (since she's useless after being played now), and give Warpath a 7 resource turn to prepare for a pack leader drop from command.

Offline JSlayerXero

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Re: Triple Warpath and why (I believe) it sucks
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2014, 07:28:56 PM »
Back during the Card Design Forum Game I made a One-Drop Wonder that gave you an extra-resource the next turn ONLY. In hindsight, that thing was a late-game drop, which if used in numbers could let you pull out large cards WAY too early. (Turn 8 Calamity anybody?) If triple Warpath got similar, maybe even as an ability, it could help? I dunno...
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Offline WWKnight

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Re: Triple Warpath and why (I believe) it sucks
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2014, 08:13:53 AM »
Well, WP got shafted in the last set partly due to a lack of set structure, and partly due to lore.

Completely due to set structure.  Lore was just the scapegoat.  Please dont spread this.
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Offline Rethorian

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Re: Triple Warpath and why (I believe) it sucks
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2015, 04:08:12 PM »
The problem is, that it ramps on turn 2 with BLBP, and has nothing to do on turn 3 with 4 resources, except ramp more. It needs the option to jump into the game there, instead of gambling on more ramp and hoping it's 5 cost cards will save it next turn. Without Karani, mass ramp is NOT a good gamble.

New Oppression Card that's been revealed:

Quote
Adaptive Hulker (WP, Common, Character 9/9, cost 4, 7 morale)
Haste
When you deploy [this], you may Overcharge it once. If you do, it gains +5/+5.

It's almost as if I was psychic...

Offline PeliKan

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Re: Triple Warpath and why (I believe) it sucks
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2015, 08:56:02 PM »
The problem is, that it ramps on turn 2 with BLBP, and has nothing to do on turn 3 with 4 resources, except ramp more. It needs the option to jump into the game there, instead of gambling on more ramp and hoping it's 5 cost cards will save it next turn. Without Karani, mass ramp is NOT a good gamble.

New Oppression Card that's been revealed:

Quote
Adaptive Hulker (WP, Common, Character 9/9, cost 4, 7 morale)
Haste
When you deploy [this], you may Overcharge it once. If you do, it gains +5/+5.

It's almost as if I was psychic...

Wow this card is so strong :D It will help for Warpath decks and I belive that it require minimum 2 WP purity

Offline MakinoMane

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Re: Triple Warpath and why (I believe) it sucks
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2015, 01:01:52 AM »
The problem with Warpath isn't that Warpath is too slow. The problem with Warpath is the way most people are playing them. Warpath is a faction that is all about big bulky creatures that have higher stats than the same cost counterparts in other factions.

I find that most people try to do a mix of ramp and the bulky characters. IE, BLBP in command and a few in deck, while leaving out a lot of 4 cost cards. I feel this is a bad strategy. Warpath might not have the best 4 cost cards in the game in terms of synchronizing with the rest of the deck, but they do have decent 4 cost cards that can stall. I think the best kinds of ways to make the Faction work is either to all in in the ramp with a deck like Teremus' Call the Warpath deck, or to play a more creature oriented meat stick deck.

I made a deck that is a really good example of my second idea with Warpaths play style:

Command Zone:
BLBP
Pack Leader
Pack Leader

Deck:
36x One of Many
3x Pack Hunt
1x Call The Warpath

Despite the way this deck may sound, it is actually a really decent warpath deck and shows off the way they should be played. The One of Many spam becomes so great, that by turn 9+ the constant 3x One of Many is too much for almost any deck to handle. If it isn't stopped early in the game, then it will just brute force steam roll over the opponent, and I think that is the key way that Warpath is intended to be played.