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Infinity Wars => News and Developer Talk => Game Rules => Topic started by: J-Boy85 on November 21, 2012, 09:13:26 PM

Title: Intellectual Property/ Distancing ourselves
Post by: J-Boy85 on November 21, 2012, 09:13:26 PM
Just wondering what everyone else thinks of this. I've noticed that a lot of the card special abilities are lifted straight out of MtG, Haste, Unstoppable, Flying and so on. Now i don't think those terms are copyrighted under Magic but there's a lot of similarities. Maybe this is good as it will help Magic players learn the game faster but do you think we should think up some new terminology to show this is a new game? Flying i doubt I could come up with something different but maybe "Battle Ready" instead of Haste or some other things like that.

Does anyone know if the abilities are placeholders or if they're planned to release with these terms?
Title: Re: Intellectual Property/ Distancing ourselves
Post by: Michael Saniyan on November 21, 2012, 09:27:25 PM
The terminology is very basic, and I think it seems silly to make it more complicated or far-fetched because another game has the same terminology. Like you said, it helps players from Magic and other TCG to understand the effects intuitively to some degree, and I think IW is so substantially different in terms of gameplay that people won't cry rip-off just from a few terms.

That being said, the current terminology might NOT be the most intuitive to players who haven't played these TCG. If others deem that to be the case, I'm sure Lightmare will consider changing something. Nothing's set in stone yet, I'm sure. Though in the end, it's all just a matter of learning the damn things anyways, like with things such as Mercenary.
Title: Re: Intellectual Property/ Distancing ourselves
Post by: WWKnight on November 21, 2012, 10:14:25 PM
Being different for the sake of being different just leads to confusion and choppy gameplay.

There is nothing wrong with taking what works and using it in your own game, at least IMO.  I dont think there will be any issues with IP copyright, and I certianly dont like change for the sake of change.
Title: Re: Intellectual Property/ Distancing ourselves
Post by: atthis on November 21, 2012, 10:22:02 PM
Using the good parts of other games and improving the not so great parts makes it an awesome game! :D
Title: Re: Intellectual Property/ Distancing ourselves
Post by: Snarley on November 22, 2012, 03:25:24 PM
On this point, Lightning Blast is pretty much a carbon copy of Electrostatic Bolt which is 1 to deal 2 damage to target creature or 4 if that creature is an artifact.

But it's not really anything to worry about in terms of TMs, Wizards of the Coast doesn't own the key words they use.
Title: Re: Intellectual Property/ Distancing ourselves
Post by: CrypticApathy on December 05, 2012, 03:02:38 AM
Wizard does own SOME of the keyboards they use (Google MTG patent). They own the word Tapped when it refers to a card game. Also i believe they own summoning sickness as well. Thats why NO OTHER card game uses those words, WOTC took on and won a few lawsuits against some growing ccg's back when they first came out and pretty much shut them down due to it. Which is partially why L5R is so old and lasted about as long as MTG has is because they never used the word "tap" they bow their cards instead so they werent affected by the lawsuit. Now with this game being digital and im assuming from the website from Australia they may be exempt from the copyright law, atleast until they try to bring the physical cards to the united states. But WOTC does have the resources to battle this company if it chose to over something.

As for the words like Flight haste cant really be copyrighted similar to how elves, dwarves, and such can be used by anyone not just tolken.
Title: Re: Intellectual Property/ Distancing ourselves
Post by: Kira on December 05, 2012, 04:42:34 AM
I did not have much trouble getting the hang of MTG card ability keywords when I got into the game, but that is coming from someone who played the god awful paragraph long effects of yugioh. I could probably see some people having a little difficulty learning all of the new terms and effect names. So why make it complicated? Just simply intuitive words is all we need.
Title: Re: Intellectual Property/ Distancing ourselves
Post by: WWKnight on December 06, 2012, 12:21:42 AM
The only IP issue I have so far is Lightning Blast being an exact remake of a MTG card in everything but the name.
Title: Re: Intellectual Property/ Distancing ourselves
Post by: SiN on December 07, 2012, 01:29:22 AM
mmmmmk here we go.

Wizards of the Coast, or Hasbro now, owns a lot of the words when referring to a TCG.  "Tap" or "Tapping" and the "Tap Symbol" are all trademarked.  Flying is not.  Haste on the other hand...i'm pretty sure is trademarked.   

Now i read "well its digital"  and to be honest, that doesnt matter at all.  If you dont know, Magic the Gathering  has an online version as well.  Its called Magic the Gathering Online.  So they also should own digital trademarks as well.

My advice would be look into it and make sure, because WoTC doesnt play when it comes to Lawsuits, they will sue you over likeness rights in an "instant" (lol, see what i did there?).  Thats why many, many, many CCG's died out, because WoTC basically owns everything.  They were the first CCG to exist (if you didnt already know that) and they made it so that they will be the last ones standing. 

Also remember, MTG has been around since 93.  Almost 20 years now, and honestly, its all been done by them before.  Coming into the world of TCG's is very tough in the fact that its hard to be 100% original because any hardcore MtG player can say "oh, thats this in MTG, they ripped that off".  But the effort this game is putting out to be original is awesome.  Thats why i'm about to donate 100 bucks to see this thing kick off.

Now with all that being said, i'd highly recommend the developers to really look into the wording and trademarks.  It may sound stupid, but if you use one of them, it could cost you your business.  Most people just arnt aware that they cant use words in a game, but its true, words as simple as "Spell", "Summoned" and "Tap" for example are very much trademarked.

Hope this helps!!

-SiN
Title: Re: Intellectual Property/ Distancing ourselves
Post by: CrypticApathy on December 07, 2012, 03:50:34 AM
That there be sum good advice what that there feller said.
Title: Re: Intellectual Property/ Distancing ourselves
Post by: Koey on December 07, 2012, 03:53:20 AM
Now with all that being said, i'd highly recommend the developers to really look into the wording and trademarks.  It may sound stupid, but if you use one of them, it could cost you your business.  Most people just arnt aware that they cant use words in a game, but its true, words as simple as "Spell", "Summoned" and "Tap" for example are very much trademarked.
Think they use "deployed" and "exhaust" for the latter two. I am not sure about spells.
I mean if they want to be safe can call it "incantation" or something.
Still being careful of legal stuff is always good.
Title: Re: Intellectual Property/ Distancing ourselves
Post by: SiN on December 07, 2012, 05:09:28 PM
yeah they dont use most of the words from MTG, and now that i think about it, the Flying mechanic i think is trademarked also.  Only being able to block a flying with another flying or a creature with reach.  I dunno, this is the toughest part of making a CCG because you have to step around WoTC to do so.  its a major pain.
Title: Re: Intellectual Property/ Distancing ourselves
Post by: Froh on December 10, 2012, 04:47:36 AM
Feel free to read THAT (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5,662,332.PN.&OS=PN/5,662,332&RS=PN/5,662,332)

I don't think Haste (or others keywords) are copyrighted besides the tapping mechanic/word and symbols.
Title: Re: Intellectual Property/ Distancing ourselves
Post by: Mitt on December 11, 2012, 11:57:58 PM
Feel free to read THAT (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5,662,332.PN.&OS=PN/5,662,332&RS=PN/5,662,332)

Ballsy Bastard isn't he?
Title: Re: Intellectual Property/ Distancing ourselves
Post by: WWKnight on December 12, 2012, 12:45:56 AM
lol.  He certainly was.  I get the impression no-one in the industry likes working with him though.  He is often refered to as "an interesting character" and when he worked on the Innistrad set, a lot of the designers said hsi designs were "interesting".  I find it interesting how often they use interesting to refer to him.
Title: Re: Intellectual Property/ Distancing ourselves
Post by: Alphagold3 on December 12, 2012, 12:59:55 AM
Personally I don't think patents that are too generalized should be allowed. If you invent a machine that does one thing by one method, then your patent should not be so general that another machine that comes to the same end result by a completely different method isn't allowed. Or in the case of card and video games, I don't think you should be allowed to patent a word so that it can't be used in another game. For instance tapping, what if you had a card game that had a mechanic called tapping that has nothing to do with the tapping mechanic from MtG? Like maybe you could tap a resource card to boost a character card and this moves the resource card to the graveyard. That would have the same name but still be a different effect. Maybe you have a card or board game whereby you physically tap on a card to designate that it is a target or something. If things like that aren't allowed because of a patent, then I think the patent needs to be reworded. As it is now, many games have extremely similar mechanics that are all called by different names and that's just ridiculous.
Title: Re: Intellectual Property/ Distancing ourselves
Post by: WWKnight on December 12, 2012, 01:03:09 AM
He only trademarked the symbol for tapping.  Besides, I find exhaust so much better.  Or I REALLY loved Stand and Kneel in game of thrones.  I think finding a term that suits flavour is far better than using one that is purely mechanical.
Title: Re: Intellectual Property/ Distancing ourselves
Post by: Zinqf on February 25, 2013, 08:44:29 PM
Quote
The only IP issue I have so far is Lightning Blast being an exact remake of a MTG card in everything but the name.
Death Ray reminds me of Terror.
And Mass Death reminds me of Wrath of God.

Also Yu-gi-oh got slammed for the use of their "Magic Cards" which were basically ability cards. Since then Konami changed them to "Spell Cards".